Notes
Chapter 2 What’s So Great About Family Dinners?
1. B. Fiese and M. Schwartz, “Reclaiming the Family Table: Mealtimes and Child Health Well-Being,” Social Policy Report 22(4) (2008): 3–16.
2. B. Sen, “The Relationship Between Frequency of Family Dinner and Adolescent Problem Behaviors After Adjusting for Other Family Characteristics,” Journal of Adolescence 33 (2010): 187–196; M. E. Eisenberg, R. Olson, D. Neumark-Sztainer, M. Story, and L. H. Bearinger, “Correlations Between Family Meals and Psychosocial Well-Being Among Adolescents,” Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine 158 (2004): 792–796; J. Fulkerson, M. Story, A. Mellin, N. Leffert, D. Neumark-Sztainer, and S. French, “Family Dinner Meal Frequency and Adolescent Development: Relationships with Developmental Assets and High-Risk Behaviors,” Journal of Adolescent Health 39(3) (2006): 337–345.
3. P. Steinglass, L. Bennett, S. J. Wolin, and D. Reiss, The Alcoholic Family (New York: Basic Books, 1987).
4. There are varying degrees of rigor and robustness in the research on family dinners. Any research that is correlational or cross-sectional opens itself to criticism about causality. If, for example, dinners are correlated with positive outcomes like increased well-being and decreased substance abuse, it isn’t the same as knowing whether having family dinners causes these positive behaviors in children. Some cross-sectional studies are improved by controlling for overarching variables. Still other studies are longitudinal, looking at more than one moment in time, a type of methodology that makes it easier to infer causality. The gold standard for research would be unethical to carry out—randomly assigning some families to eating dinner separately in bedrooms while watching TV, and assigning others to regular mealtimes in the kitchen as a family.
5. F. J. Elgar, W. Craig, and S. J. Trites, “Family Dinners, Communication, and Mental Health in Canadian Adolescents,” Journal of Adolescent Health 52(4) (2013): 433–438; A. Meier and K. Musick, “Family Dinners and Adolescent Well-Being,” California Center for Populations Research, online, working paper series, 1–33, June 2012.
6. D. Dickinson and P. Tabors, eds., Beginning Literacy and Language: Young Children Learning at Home and School. (Baltimore: Paul H. Brooks Publishing, 2002). The Home-School Study of Language and Literacy Development.
7. C. E. Snow and D. E. Beals, “Mealtime That Supports Literacy Development,” New Directions for Child and Adolescent Development 111 (Spring 2006).
8. S. L. Hofferth and J. F. Sandberg, “How American Children Spend Their Time,” Journal of Marriage and the Family 63 (2001): 295–308.
9. B. Fiese, “Family Matters: A Systems View of Family Effects on Children’s Cognitive Health,” Environmental Effects on Cognitive Abilities, ed. R. J. Sternberg and E. L. Grigorenko (Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum, 2000), 39–57.
10. G. H. Brody and D. L. Flor, “Maternal Psychological Functioning, Family Processes, and Child Adjustment in Rural, Single Parent, African American Families,” Developmental Psychology 33 (1997): 1000–1011.
11. The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University (CASA), “The Importance of Family Dinners,” 2003, 2007, 2009, 2010; retrieved from http://www.casacolumbia.org/templates/Publications_Reports.askpx.
12. Fulkerson, Story, Meillin, Leffer, Neumark-Sztainer, and French, “Family Dinner Meal Frequency and Adolescent Development: Relationships with Developmental Assets and High-Risk Behaviors,” 337–345; B. Sen, “The Relationship Between Frequency of Family Dinner and Adolescent Problem Behaviors After Adjusting for Other Family Characteristics,” Journal of Adolescence 33 (2010): 187–196.
13. M. E. Eisenberg, R. E. Olson, D. Neumark-Sztainer, M. Story, and L. H. Bearinger, “Correlations Between Family Meals and Psychosocial Well-being Among Adolescents,” Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine 158 (2004): 792–796.
14. M. E. Eisenberg, D. Neumark-Sztainer, J. A. Fulkerson, and M. Story, “Family Meals and Substance Abuse: Is There a Long-Term Protective Association?” Journal of Adolescent Health 43 (2008): 145–151.
15. D. Neumark-Sztainer, M. E. Eisenberg, J. A. Fulkerson, M. Story, and N. Larson, “Family Meals and Disordered Eating in Adolescents,” Archive Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine 162(21) (2008): 17–22.
16. D. Neumark-Sztainer, M. Wall, M. Story, and J. A. Fulkerson, “Are Family Meal Patterns Associated with Disordered Eating Behaviors Among Adolescents?” Journal of Adolescent Health 35 (2004): 350–359.
17. Fulkerson, Story, Mellin, Leffert, Neumark-Sztainer, and French, “Family Dinner Meal Frequency and Adolescent Development: Relationships with Developmental Assets and High-Risk Behaviors,” 337–345.
18. S. Gable, Y. Chang, and J. Krull, “Television Watching and Frequency of Family Meals Are Predictive of Overweight Onset and Persistence in a National Sample of School-Aged Children,” Journal of the American Dietetic Association 107 (2007): 53–61.
19. M. W. Gilman, S. L. Rifas-Shiman, A. L. Frazier, H. Rocket, C. A. Camargo, A. E. Feld, C. S. Berkey, and G. A. Colditz, “Family Dinner and Diet Quality Among Older Children and Adolescents,” Archives of Family Medicine 9 (2000): 235–240. These findings were based on the children’s own self-report of what they ate in the previous twenty-four hours and were robust findings, even when household income, maternal employment, body mass index and physical activity were taken out of the equation.
20. M. S. Faith, K. S. Scanlon, L. L. Birch, L. S. Francis, and B. Sherry, “Parent-Child Feeding Strategies and Their Relationships to Child Eating and Weight Status,” Obesity Research 12 (2004): 1711–1722.
21. M. P. Jacobs and B. H. Fiese, “Family Mealtime Interactions and Overweight Children with Asthma,” Journal of Pediatric Psychology 32(1) (2007): 64–68.
22. S. Markson and B. Fiese, “Family Rituals as a Protective Factor for Children with Asthma,” Journal of Pediatric Psychology 25(7) (2000): 471–479.
23. B. H. Fiese, M. A. Winter, and J. C. Botti, “The ABCs of Family Mealtimes: Observational Lessons for Promoting Healthy Outcomes for Children,” Child Development 82(1) (2011): 144–151.
24. M. W. Gilman, S. L. Rifas-Shiman, A. L. Frazier, H. R. Rockett, C. A. Camargo, A. E. Field, C. S. Berkey, and G. A. Colditz, “Family Dinner Quality Among Older Children and Adolescents,” Archives of Family Medicine 9(3) (2000): 235–240; T. M. Videon and C. K. Manning, “Influences on Adolescent Eating Patterns: The Importance of Family Meals,” Journal of Adolescent Health 32 (2003): 365–373; J. A. Fulkerson, M. Y. Jubik, M. Story, L. Lytle, and C. Arcan, “Are There Nutritional and Other Benefits Associated with Family Meals Among At-Risk Youth?” Journal of Adolescent Health 45 (2009): 389–395.
25. N. I. Larson, D. Neumark-Sztainer, P. J. Hannan, and M. Story, “Family Meals During Adolescence Are Associated with Higher Diet Quality and Healthful Meal Patterns During Young Adulthood,” Journal of the American Dietetic Association 107(8) (2007): 1502–1510.
26. CASA, 2010, file:///Users/annefishel/Downloads/The-importance-of -family-dinners-VI.pdf, accessed 9/3/14.
27. CASA, 2012, http://www.casacolumbia.org/addiction-research/reports/importance-of-family-dinners-2012, accessed 9/3/14.
28. C. Zoumas-Morse, C. L. Rock, E. L. Sobo, L. Marian, and M. L. Neuhouser, “Children’s Patterns of Macronutrient Intake and Associations with Restaurant and Home Eating,” Journal of the American Dietetic Association 101 (2001): 923–925.
29. R.Whiting, “Guidelines to Designing Therapeutic Rituals,” in E. Imber-Black, J. Roberts, and R. Whiting (Eds.), Rituals in Families and Family Therapy (New York: Norton, 1988).
30. P. Steinglass, L. Bennett, S. J. Wolin, and D. Reiss, The Alcoholic Family (New York: Basic Books, 1987).
31. http://www.reelviews.net/php_review_template.php?identifier=186, accessed 9/3/14.
Chapter 3 One Size Dinner Doesn’t Fit All Ages
1. J. Menella, M. Jagnow, and G. Beauchamp, “Prenatal and Postnatal Flavor Learning by Human Infants,” Pediatrics 107(6) (2001): 88–94.
2. G. Beauchamp and J. Menella, “Early Flavor Learning and Its Impact on Later Feeding Behavior,” Journal of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition 48 (2009): 25–30.
3. B. H. Fiese, Family Routines and Rituals (New Haven: Yale University Press, 2006).
4. H. Bante, M. Elliott, A. Harrod, and D. Haire-Joshu, “The Use of Inappropriate Feeding Practices by Rural Parents and Their Effect on Preschoolers’ Fruit and Vegetable Preferences and Intake,” Journal of Nutrition Education and Behavior 40(1) (2008): 28–33.
5. M. W. Gilman, S. L. Rifas-Shiman, A. L. Frazier, H. R. Rockett, C. A. Camargo, A. E. Field, C. S. Berkey, and G. A. Colditz, “Family Dinner and Diet Quality Among Older Children and Adolescents,” Archives of Family Medicine 9(3) (2000): 235–240.
6. S. Hauser, S. Powers, and G. Noam, Adolescents and Their Families: Paths of Ego Development (New York: Free Press, 1991).
7. M. F. K. Fisher, Serve It Forth (New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1937).
Chapter 4 Tips for Healthy Eating
1. http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-markets-prices/processing-marketing/new-products.aspx#.U_ycabxdVlw, accessed 8/26/14.
2. B. Wansink, Mindless Eating: Why We Eat More Than We Think (New York: Random House, 2010).
3. W. Willet, Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy (New York: Simon and Schuster, 2001), 27.
4. http://www.sciencedaily.com/.
5. C. Ogden and M. Carroll, “Prevalence of Obesity Among Children and Adolescents: United States, Trends 1963–1965 through 2007–2008,” Centers for Disease Control, National Center for Health Statistics, June 2010; C. L. Ogden, M. D. Carroll, B. K. Kit, and K. M. Flegal, “Prevalence of Childhood and Adult Obesity in the United States, 2011–2012,” Journal of the American Medical Association 311(8) (2014): 806–814.
6. M. Wabitsch, A. Moss, and K. Kromeyer-Hauschild, “Unexpected Plateauing of Childhood Obesity Rates in Developed Countries,” http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741–7015/12/17.
7. Ibid.
8. B. N. Ogata and D. Hayes, “Position of Nutrition and Dietetics: Nutrition Guidance for Children Ages 2 to 11 Years Position Statement,” Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics 114(8) (2014): 1257–1276.
9. Position of the American Dietetic Association: Dietary Guidance for Healthy Children Ages 2–11 Years, Journal of the American Dietetic Association 104(7) (2004): 660–677.
10. S. Savage, J. O. Fisher, and L. L. Birch, “Parental Influence on Eating Behavior: Conception to Adolescence,” Journal of Law and Medical Ethics 35(1) (2007): 22–34.
11. Michael Pollan, In Defense of Food (New York: Penguin Press, 2008).
12. Rachel Herz, That’s Disgusting: Unraveling the Mysteries of Repulsion (New York: W. W. Norton, 2012).
13. L. J. Cooke, C. M. A. Haworth, and J. Wardle, “Genetic and Environmental Influences on Children’s Food Neophobia,” American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 86 (2007): 428–433.
14. Isobel Contento, Columbia University Teacher’s College.
15. J. M. Berge, R. MacLehos, K. A. Loth, M. Eisenberg, M. M. Bucchianeri, and D. Neumark-Sztainer, “Parent Conversations About Healthful Eating and Weight: Associations with Adolescent Disordered Eating Behavior,” JAMA Pediatrics 167(8) (2013): 746–753.
16. L. A. Francis and L. L. Birch, “Maternal Influences on Daughters’ Restrained Eating Behavior,” Health Psychology 24(6) (2005): 548–554.
17. S. A. Sullivan and L. L. Birch, “Pass the Sugar, Pass the Salt: Experience Dictates Preference,” Developmental Psychology 26 (1990): 546–551.
18. Y. Martins, University of South Australia.
19. A. T. Galloway, L. M. Fiorito, L. A. Francis, and L. L. Birch, “ ‘Finish Your Soup’: Counterproductive Effects of Pressuring Children to Eat on Intake and Affect,” Appetite 46(3) (2006): 318–323.
20. J. O. Fisher and L. L. Birch, “Restricting Access to Palatable Foods Affects Children’s Behavioral Response, Food Selection, and Intake,” American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 69(6) (1999): 1264–1272.
21. Michael Pollan, Food Rules (New York: Penguin Press, 2011). I have given only a sampling of his eighty-three rules.
22. Marion Nestle, What to Eat (New York: North Point Press, 2006).
23. K. C. Copeland, P. Zeitler, M. Geffner, C. Guandalini, J. Higgins, K. Hirst, F. R. Kaufman, B. Linder, S. Marcovina, P. McGuigan, L. Pyle, W. Tamborlane, and S. Willi for the TODAY Study Group, “Characteristics of Adolescents and Youth with Recent-Onset Type 2 Diabetes: The TODAY Cohort at Baseline,” Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 96 (2011): 159–167.
24. http://www.helpguide.org/life/healthy_diet_diabetes.htm, http://www.eatright.org/Public/content.aspx?id=6813.
25. J. Baio, “Prevalence of Autism Spectrum Disorder Among Children Aged 8 Years,” Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring Network, 11 sites, U.S., 2010. Surveillance summaries: March 28, 2014/63(SS02):1–21. Accessed 4/9/14, http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6302a1.htm?s_cid=ss6302a1_w.
26. S. M. Shore, Beyond the Wall: Personal Experiences with Autism and Asperger Syndrome (Shawnee Mission, KS: Autism Asperger Publishing Co., 2001).
27. Clinical details have been changed to protect the identity of the patient.
28. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db121.htm, accessed 9/3/14.
29. http://www.foodallergy.org/document.doc?id=133.
30. http://www.foodallergy.org/tools-and-resources/managing-food-allergies/cooking-and-baking?.
Chapter 5 Play with Your Food
1. N. Chaudhari, A. M. Landin, and S. D. Roper, “A Metabotropic Glutamate Receptor Variant Functions as a Taste Receptor,” Nature Neuroscience 3 (2000): 113–119.
2. C. Bushdid, M. O. Magnasco, L. B. Vosshall, and A. Keller, “Humans Can Discriminate More Than 1 Trillion Olfactory Stimuli,” Science 343(6177) (2014): 1370–1372; www.sciencemag.org/content/343/6177/1370, accessed 8/26/14.
3. R. Schoenthaler, www.thefamilydinnerproject.org/family-blog/moving-beyond-picky-eating.
4. Richard Wrangham, Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human (New York: Basic Books, 2010).
5. V. Rideout, U. Foehr, and D. Roberts, Generation M2: Media in the Lives of 8- to 18-Year-Olds (Menlo Park, CA: Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, 2010).
Chapter 6 Table Talk That Goes Beyond “How Was Your Day?”
1. M. Chouinard, “Analysis of the Childes Database,” Monographs of the Society for Research in Child Development 72(1) (2007): 14–44.
2. http://www.thedigitalfamily.org/.
3. http://sites.gse.harvard.edu/making-caring-common/resources-publications/research-report, accessed 9/30/14. For more research and advice on raising ethical children.
4. Susan Dominus, “Table Talk: The New Family Dinner,” New York Times, April 27, 2012.
5. M. P. Duke, R. Fivush, A. Lazarus, and J. Bohanek, “Of Ketchup and Kin: Dinnertime Conversations as a Major Source of Family Knowledge, Family Adjustment, and Family Resilience,” The Emory Center for Myth and Ritual in American Life, Working Paper No. 26, May 2003.
Chapter 7 Telling Stories to Promote Empathy, Self-Esteem, Resilience, and Enjoyment
1. M. P. Duke, A. Lazarus, and R. Fivush, “Knowledge of Family History as a Clinically Useful Index of Psychological Well-Being and Prognosis: A Brief Report,” Psychotherapy Theory, Research, Practice, Training 45 (2008): 268–272.
2. R. Fivush, J. G. Bohanek, and M. Duke, “The Intergenerational Self: Subjective Perspective and Family History,” Emory Center for Myth and Ritual in American Life, Working Paper No. 44, 2005.
3. C. E. Snow and D. E. Beals, “Mealtime Talk That Supports Literacy,” New Directions for Child and Adolescent Development, no. 111 (2006): 51–66.
4. C. E. Snow, “Literacy and Language: Relationships During the Preschool Years,” Harvard Educational Review 53 (1983): 165–189.
5. P. O. Tabors, C. E. Snow, and D. K. Dickenson, Homes and Schools Together: Supporting Language and Literacy Development (Baltimore: Brooks, 2001), 313–334.
6. R. Fivush, “Maternal Reminiscing Style and Children’s Developing Understanding of Self and Emotion,” Clinical Social Work Journal 35 (2007): 37–46.
7. C. Peterson, B. Jesso, and A. McCabe, Journal of Child Language 26(1) (1999): 49–67.
8. Ibid.
9. E. Reese, A. Bird, and G. Tripp, “Children’s Self-Esteem and Moral Self: Links to Parent-Child Conversations About Emotion,” Social Development 16: 460–478.
10. D. Laible, “Mother-Child Discourse in Two Contexts: Links with Child Temperament, Attachment Security, and Socioemotional Competence,” Developmental Psychology 20 (2004): 979–992.
11. Duke, Fivus, Lazarus, and Bohanek, “Of Ketchup and Kin: Dinnertime Conversations as a Major Source of Family Knowledge, Family Adjustment, and Family Resilience.”
12. A. Thorne, K. C. McLean, and A. Dasbach, “When Parents’ Stories Go to Pot: Telling Personal Transgression to Teenage Kids,” Family Stories and the Life Course: Across Time and Generations, ed. M. W. Pratt and B. H. Fiese (Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, 2004).
13. Sonia Sotomayer, My Beloved World (New York: Knopf, 2013).
14. D. McAdams, “Generativity and the Narrative Ecology of Family Life,” Family Stories and the Life Course: Across Time and Generations, ed. M. W. Pratt and B. H. Fiese (Mahweh, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, 2004).
15. P. Gould, “Telling Stories and Getting Acquainted: How Age Matters,” Family Stories and the Life Course: Across Time and Generations, ed. M. W. Pratt and B. H. Fiese (Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, 2004).
16. J. Norris, S. Kuiack, and M. W. Pratt, “As Long as They Go Back Down the Driveway at the End of the Day: Stories of the Satisfactions and Challenges of Grandparenthood,” Family Stories and the Life Course: Across Time and Generations, ed. M. W. Pratt and B. H. Fiese (Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, 2004).
17. D. McAdams, J. Reynolds, M. Lewis, A. Patten, and P. Bowman, “When Bad Things Turn Good and Good Things Turn Bad: Sequences of Redemption and Contamination in Life Narrative and Their Relation to Psychosocial Adaptation in Midlife Adults and in Students,” Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 27(4) (2001): 474–485.
18. Laurie Colwin, Home Cooking (New York: Knopf, 1988); Laurie Colwin, More Home Cooking: A Writer Returns to the Kitchen (New York: HarperCollins, 1993).
Chapter 8 Lessons Learned from The Family Dinner Project
1. Thefamilydinnerproject.org.
2. Shelly London, Bob Stains, Lynn Barendsen, Ashley Sandvi, Wendy Fischman, Jono Reduker, Mary Reilly, Laura Chasin, and I. Other people have joined the team over the past four years: Amy Yelin, Joanna Gallagher, Amy Burton, Grace Taylor, John Sarrouf, Charlotte Svirsky, Kelly Johnston, Alyssa Wickham, Paromita De, Dave Joseph, Bri DeRosa. And still others have been consultants to us: Nico Mele, Morra Aarons-Mele, Christine Koh, Debbie Halpern, Howard Gardner. We have received help and guidance from the Public Conversations Project in Watertown, MA, and from The Good Project at the Harvard Graduate School of Education School. Shelly London first conceived of The Family Dinner Project while an inaugural fellow in Harvard’s Advanced Leadership Initiative. While at Harvard, she worked with partners, students, and professors to develop a multifaceted, multimedia program to promote ethical thinking and conversation about ethics. Since everyday ethics—talk about the choices we make as individuals and the way we treat each other every day—start at home, family dinners are a prime time to help families come together to talk about these issues. As Shelly conducted research on family dinners during her fellowship, she connected with a group of people who became the founding members of The Family Dinner Project team.
3. Not their real names.
4. Not their real names.
Chapter 9 Dinner as a Laboratory for Change
1. The names and other identifying features have been changed for all the clinical examples offered in this chapter.
2. Patricia L. Papernow, Surviving and Thriving in Stepfamily Relationships: What Works and What Doesn’t (New York: Routledge, 2013).
3. http://thefamilydinnerproject.org/food-for-thought/steps-to-ease-dinner-stress-for-stepfamilies/.
4. P. Rauch and A. Muriel, Raising an Emotionally Healthy Child When a Parent Is Sick (New York: McGraw-Hill, 2006).
5. R. Basson, “Women’s Difficulties with Low Sexual Desire, Sexual Avoidance, and Sexual Aversion,” Handbook of Clinical Sexuality for Mental Health Professionals, second edition, ed. S. B. Levine, C. B. Risen, and S. E. Althof (New York: Routledge, 2011).
Chapter 10 Extending the Dinner Table to the Wide World
1. J. Billing and P. W. Sherman, “Antimicrobial Functions of Spices: Why Some Like It Hot,” The Quarterly Review of Biology 73(1) (1998): 3–49.
2. http://www.nrdc.org/food/files/wasted-food-ip.pdf.
3. K. Moreland, S. Wing, A. D. Roux, and C. Poule, “Neighborhood Characteristics Associated with the Location of Food Stores and Food Service Places,” American Journal of Preventive Medicine 22(1) (2002): 23–29.
4. U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) 2009 access to affordable and nutritious food: Measuring and understanding food deserts and their consequences. Washington, DC: Economic Research Service.
5. Tristram Stewart, Waste: Uncovering the Global Food Scandal (New York: W. W. Norton, 2009).
6. Phone conversation with author, February 27, 2014.
7. TED Talk, TedxDirigo, September 2011, https://www.ted.com/talks/roger_doiron_my_subversive_garden_plot, accessed 2/25/14.
8. Conversation with David Gass.
9. http://www.farmtoschool.org/.
10. http://edibleschoolyard.org/node/102, accessed 9/30/14.
11. http://www.nrdc.org/food/files/wasted-food-ip.pdf.
12. Ibid.
14. http://www.nrdc.org/food/files/wasted-food-ip.pdf.
15. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/05/18780415-wasting-food-is-like-stealing-from-the-poor-says-pope?lite.
16. http://www.foodrecoverynetwork.org/; http://www.thinkeatsave.org/; http://www.feeding5k.org/gleaning.php.
17. http://www.nrdc.org/food/expiration-dates.asp.
18. http://england.lovefoodhatewaste.com/hints-and-tips.
19. http://england.lovefoodhatewaste.com/content/food-waste-recycling-what-do-food-you-cant-eat.
20. http://www.nrdc.org/globalWarming/files/eatgreenfs_feb2010.pdf.
21. http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Document.aspx?Document=EV02007_4601_FRP.pdf.
22. http://www.nrdc.org/globalWarming/files/eatgreenfs_feb2010.pdf.
23. Clinton Global Initiative: Challah for Hunger, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xe6KQmzaLw, accessed 9/3/14
24. Phone conversation with author, January 2014.